GT Lovers don't read.

[Sephiroth MK1]

This is not going to be nice, so if you love GT I suggest you do not read any further.

I have just read the latest reviews for Gran Turismo and now the games dead as far as I am concerned. For the last 5 or 6 years (since GT was first launched) I have been an avid lover of GT and would have happily defended it to the hilt angainst anyone saying their was a better driving game avaliable but from what I have read about GT4 I no longer care about this game at all.

After playing GT3 I realised that whilst brilliant to look at and huge in the extreme it was pretty shallow. Crap AI opponents, no damage, no real strategy needed to progress and at times extremely tedious, driving liscense test that go on for ever a sim mode that degenrates in to running endless boring races against opponents of little or no challenge and Endurance races that are effectively won after ten laps but require you to complete the remaining 40 to get the prize.

Then when I looked back at the previous GTs I realised that ALL the games are the same, the only thing that changed was a small tweak of the physics, some new cars and some new tracks. At this point I made a decision to NOT buy the next GT unless it met some very specific criteria.

- The AI must be better, not the stupid drones from the previous games but instead a geniune challenge.
- You must be forced to drive fairly, none of this cutting corners and smashing in to opponents rubbish.
- The Sim mode has to be more structured with less tedious races.
- Strategy has to be included, fuel, tyres, pitstops whether.
- Less Jap fillers and more big name cars; Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, etc.

So as you can imagine the pre-release details got me well excited, improved AI, a revised Sim mode structure, none visable damage but damage that would effect the cars handling, punsihement for cheating, a bigger range of cars, more tracks, revised physcis engine and online play. So I waited... I waited a year after it was meant to be here.... and finally the month of release draws close and I read the first review and what do I find?

I find out that the only major difference between GT3 and 4 is, yes you guessed it, more cars, more tracks, nicer graphics and a new physics engine. All the stuff that peaked my intrest removed and forgotten about.

I hate GT now, real driving sim my codling. I will no longer defend this game series from the Project Gotham lovers, from the up coming Forza Motorsport fan boys. 4 goes Polyphony have had and 6 years to get the 'Ultimate Driving Sim' and each time all we get is more cars, more tracks and nicer graphics with no attempt to improve the core elements. I don't want 600 cars, I don't want photorealistic backgrounds or a 99% accurate computer itteration of the Nurberg Ring. For anyone who doubts what Iam saying ask yourself this, if GT is truly the 'ultimate driving sim' that it claims to be why is it impossible to leave tyre marks on the tracks when you skid?

[Savanna]

I think the AI in Gt4 is better, and that new Physics engine has made it harder, and actually made it so when you do Rally you have to try and not wall ride with a 800 HP beast. That what I think, also helps I own it, but GT3 was the first I played. I see waht you mean on the Cars and graphics. I think if you at least gave it a rental, you find it is better than all ther other PS2 racers out there.

[stevengemmell]

To knock a game before you have tried it is acting a fool almost 'ludacris'

[Savanna]

I forgot to add this the first time. Look at every Racing franchise. Whenever a new title in the series is made, the only differences are new tracks, better graphics, and more cars. Most don't both with updating a Physics engine most the time from what I play.

And besides that, most games franchises stick with what keeps players coming back, updating there old game with more of the same, with a better look.

[General]

by what i have read the diving is gona be alot more fair. lie u can use other cars as bumpers anymore. u get like seconds off or some penalty for contact with other cars.

[Sephiroth MK1]

Hmm Sav, I can name three racing games that have changed tact.

NFS started off as an arcade version of GT, i.e well know wishlist cars driven to extreme. It then changed tact and introduced Hot Pursuit and then it changed again to give us the Underground series.

Toca Race Driver. Started life as a console iteration of the BTCC, for teh frist two games it stuck with this formula before become a far more diverse game adding alot more championships and racing types to its roster.

Burnout. Started as a ballsout arcade racer with the third edtion changing tact and introducing the concept of strategic crashing in to the game.

Fact is the majority of games developers listen to what people want in the next edition of the game and then try to introduce it. Look at GTA for a great example of how this has been done. Ask any GT fan and the same things come up time and again.

- Better AI
- Lambos, Ferraris, etc
- Realistic damage
- Better or more structured races
- Strategic racing, not just racing till your tyres are bald
- Online play

Polyphony took this wishlist and ignored everything on it, to add insult to injury they did this after saying that all the things above would appear in GT4, they then heaped even more sh*t on to it by making us wait a year longer than we should have and then when it finally does get a realise, yep you guessed it more cars, more tracks, better graphics and none of the stuff that would make the game actually better.

Times have moved on, Arcade racers such as Burnout 3 look just as good as GT but run a hell of alot faster, Burnout 3 has opponents that are a challenge and gameplay that has me glued to the screen afraid to blink in case I lose the car and trash it in to a bus. GT4 promised to bring actual driving sims back to this level of excitement instead it seems to have not bothered. Burnout 3 is a challenge, a test of skills, a test of you vs the opponent vs the wall. GT4 will no doubt be like the other 3 GT games a test of endurance, a test of patience, a test of racing another 40 laps when you had the race won on lap 10.

Oh and noone answered my question about GT not having skidmarks?

[Sephiroth MK1]

by what i have read the diving is gona be alot more fair. lie u can use other cars as bumpers anymore. u get like seconds off or some penalty for contact with other cars.

This only occurs in some races and whats five seconds when your driving a car that is 10 seconds a lap faster than everyone else over the course of a 50 lap event?

[Savanna]

This only occurs in some races and whats five seconds when your driving a car that is 10 seconds a lap faster than everyone else over the course of a 50 lap event?

It happens in I think all IB and above races, and any rally race. I have barely had time to play, and I avoid bumping in all racing titles.

[Sephiroth MK1]

It happens in I think all IB and above races, and any rally race. I have barely had time to play, and I avoid bumping in all racing titles.

LOL then you couldn't have got very far in Burnout 3 then, 'bumping' is a corner stone to progression. Besides a real 'driving sim' take for a example Gp3 on the PC, you 'bump' in to a car on that you lose your front wing if your lucky, if your unlucky you lose your front wing, your front wheels and flip the car.

[Savanna]

LOL then you couldn't have got very far in Burnout 3 then

I never talked abotu Burnout 3, as I do not like the burnout series. And in all the Arcade racing titles I have(Rallisport 2, Outrun 2, PGR2), I stay as clean as possable, same goes for TOCA 2 and all the Sim titles I have to.

[Night_Cralwer]

Iam saying ask yourself this, if GT is truly the 'ultimate driving sim' that it claims to be why is it impossible to leave tyre marks on the tracks when you skid?


if it where no one would be about to play it, think about it a for starters half the cars wouldnt be able to stop doing burn outs. let alone get around a corner.

i havent played it yet but i have it sitting right in frount of me (cant wai to get off work).

i wont juge it till i have played it, but i am sure it wont dissapoint me :thumb:

[Chappers]

brought it todayand thought its a good game, definetly a tad harder than the last one, and i think it s good.

as to ur burn out 3 comment its a completly different style of racing game i concider that game one of the best but u cannot put it up with GT4 as they are different styles.

[Scarface]

LOL then you couldn't have got very far in Burnout 3 then, 'bumping' is a corner stone to progression. Besides a real 'driving sim' take for a example Gp3 on the PC, you 'bump' in to a car on that you lose your front wing if your lucky, if your unlucky you lose your front wing, your front wheels and flip the car.

Its a driving sim ... not a crashing sim.

Its based on the physics of driving not crashing.

None of the games has ever marketed themselves as a racing sim ... but again as a driving sim and thats what it is.

Ive read all your posts and I realy cant see what your moaning about.

You played all three and admited you like them and now you dont like the new one because they are the same as the ones you once liked.

To me it sounz like sour grapes you wanted some radical new game ,it didnt happen and now you h8 it.

BTW you could turn damage on in GT3 :)

But who ever used it ,I didnt I dont know anyone who did ,mainly because like I said earlier its a driving sim not a crashing or racing sim.

To me a new GT with new cars and tracks and sharper graphix sounz great.

[stevengemmell]

it is, it rocks

[Sephiroth MK1]

Its a driving sim ... not a crashing sim.

Its based on the physics of driving not crashing.

Yes I was driving down to the shop the other day, and some woman pulled out in front of me, I hit her side on and due to the physics of 'driving' I just bounced off her car and continued on my way with a single scratch.

None of the games has ever marketed themselves as a racing sim ... but again as a driving sim and thats what it is.

Intresting, closed tracks, opponents, racing cars, prices based on the position you finish in, pit stops, tyres called 'racing tyres', can't possibly see why I would have mistaken it for a racing game?

You played all three and admited you like them and now you dont like the new one because they are the same as the ones you once liked.

I played GT1 because it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I played GT2 because it was GT1 but with more stuff to do, by the end of it I was getting bored with the samy race pace and no competition from the AI.
I played GT3 because it looked amazing, half way through I realised that apart from the graphics nothing much changed, I never completed that game.

To me it sounz like sour grapes you wanted some radical new game ,it didnt happen and now you h8 it.

No all I wanted was the game Polyphony promised, a GT that keeps pace with the competition. Damage, challenging AI, online play, better game structure, more intresting racing. All things Polyphony promised would be apart of GT4 and all things that somehow didn't make it.

BTW you could turn damage on in GT3

You could turn 'tyre' damage on.

To me a new GT with new cars and tracks and sharper graphix sounz great.

Then go buy it, GT4 doesn't have anything that I want so I won't waste my cash on it.

[Chappers]

mate the reason why they aren't going to have damage in the game is simple. the car manufactures don't want the game showing their cars week points in a crash and seeing them all battered at the end of the race. it wouldn't be smart for the marketing.

hence why there is no damage to the cars.

[Savanna]

mate the reason why they aren't going to have damage in the game is simple. the car manufactures don't want the game showing their cars week points in a crash and seeing them all battered at the end of the race. it wouldn't be smart for the marketing.

hence why there is no damage to the cars.

If that were ture, then PGR2 would show no damage, same goes for TOCA2 and Rallisport 2(only games I own that show damage).

Ok, now that it is known Everyone likes the game besides Seph, can we just let it go. The Bashing is going on it 2 threads now. I am now gonna go, and have fun with Photo Mode with my USB Flash Drive.

[Chappers]

mate, are they not all rally games.

which when u watch tv u see ****ed up anyway. the cars in GT are like road cars. which people use. so if they see them ****ed up they might lose sales, tbh if i owned a popular car company i wouldn't want my cars to be in a game which get trashed, from a marketing view point.

[Savanna]

PGR2 is a Arcade racer, and still one of the most played Xbox Live titles online and its been out for over a Year. TOCA2 has is a Sim racer. Neither of those have Rally racing.

[stevengemmell]

Toca 2 sucked, PGR2 rocks, but all the cars handle the same for me :(

[Scarface]

Played GT4 today.

Was well cool.

That is all.

[stevengemmell]

It roxors

[korn1]

It roxors

Well i have owned the game since it came out i have all 4 actully also i have nfs 2 and rally sport challenge 2 few others....

It matters on the gamer really wut u like urself but gt4 is the best look and style ull find in a racing game wut they need to do is put more effort in the stuff u do with ur expencive ass car iam 77% in still its good :thumb:

[Chappers]

well that mates my 4.5 look really ****. hmmm

[sandok]

The reason damage cannot be done is because the companys of SOME cars don^t want damage. Some cars like the Lancer and all (mitsu) don't mind but some like Pagani DO mind... So it's not poloyphonies fault.

AI... Now if GT had some good Ai, I'd be in heaven. I never played the 1 or 2 but the 3 was great but after a while... You get the picutre.GT4 unfortunately doesn't have the AI I want.

Strategy... I don't really care for it. :lol:

I just find that GT4 is a better GT3. Not a whole NEW game which is sad :(

[Scarface]

Yes I was driving down to the shop the other day, and some woman pulled out in front of me, I hit her side on and due to the physics of 'driving' I just bounced off her car and continued on my way with a single scratch.

I have no idea what your getting at with this rather vague statement.

All I can suggest is that your are confusing a GAME with real life.

Crashes have nenevr bee realistic in GT games and probably never will for the simple fact that its not their major focus ,making the cars drive in a realistic way has always been their focus and I would say thry make no apologies for that and why should they?

You suddently hate a game becuase they didnt include something they have never had before?

Gimme a break ,if you want crashes play a game with crashes if you dont play GT ,it realy dont get much simpler than that does it.



Intresting, closed tracks, opponents, racing cars, prices based on the position you finish in, pit stops, tyres called 'racing tyres', can't possibly see why I would have mistaken it for a racing game?

Yup thanks for strengthening my point racing GAME not SIM.



I played GT1 because it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I played GT2 because it was GT1 but with more stuff to do, by the end of it I was getting bored with the samy race pace and no competition from the AI.
I played GT3 because it looked amazing, half way through I realised that apart from the graphics nothing much changed, I never completed that game.

Then why even be intersted in 4 if you were already sick of the series?



No all I wanted was the game Polyphony promised, a GT that keeps pace with the competition. Damage, challenging AI, online play, better game structure, more intresting racing. All things Polyphony promised would be apart of GT4 and all things that somehow didn't make it.

awww didums ,oh well keep up your lone crusade.

And who the hell wanyts damage anyway?

Not I.



You could turn 'tyre' damage on.

My bad I was thinking of gt2



Then go buy it, GT4 doesn't have anything that I want so I won't waste my cash on it.

Judging by the replies in this thread your the only one who feels this way.

Why do you even care?

You said you were sick of the series before this one even came out ,and now your not going to paly it because it dosnt have the things you want.

So you decide to start a thread ripping to peices a game which most people are enjoying.

I dont get it.

I dont see why ur so passionate about slaging a game you dont even care about.

[Sephiroth MK1]

I have no idea what your getting at with this rather vague statement.

All I can suggest is that your are confusing a GAME with real life.

If you want to bat around phrases like

Its based on the physics of driving not crashing.

Then don't act dumb when someone calls you on the fact that it isn't actually based on the physics of real driving. Real driving has crashes and these cause damage. GT does not have this, my little 'statement' was pretty self explanitonary of this fact.

You suddently hate a game becuase they didnt include something they have never had before?

Gimme a break ,if you want crashes play a game with crashes if you dont play GT ,it realy dont get much simpler than that does it.

You seem to have gotten it in to your head that I hate GT because you can't crash in it.

Firstly my use of the 'crashing' element in refrence to Burnout 3 was to show that the Burnout series had tried to incoporate something new in to it's game series. It could have just stuck with the race after race gameplay and done nothing to improve upon that! (sound familar?)

Secondly I have also explained that I hate GT because I have moved on I have played other far superior far more fun racing games, alot has happened in racing games in the two - three years since GT3, I got bored with GT3 so Polyphony needed to do something new to get any intrest from me for GT4, a year ago they promised all these great new changes, they failed to deliver on all of them. I have already explained this fact 2 or 3 times.

Yup thanks for strengthening my point racing GAME not SIM.

Oh so it is a RACING game now and not a DRIVING sim, care to make up your mind on this one?

Then why even be intersted in 4 if you were already sick of the series?

Explained 3 times so far explained again above, Polyphony promised all this new stuff a year and a bit ago, e.g the new ai, the better structured game, more exciting racing, damage (albiet damage that effected the cars handling as oppossed to visable damage), online game play. None of which actually appeared in the final game.

awww didums ,oh well keep up your lone crusade.

LOL, judging by the posts that are starting to come in I am not the only one totally underwhelmed by GT4.

And who the hell wanyts damage anyway?

Not I.

Then they include an option to turn it off, that way they cater to the greater market who do want damage and those that want to take the easy way out can turn it off, better yet why don't you skip the driving altogether and let the PS2 do the driving for you.

[Scarface]

Then don't act dumb when someone calls you on the fact that it isn't actually based on the physics of real driving. Real driving has crashes and these cause damage. GT does not have this, my little 'statement' was pretty self explanitonary of this fact.

You just dont get it.

Driving has nothing to with crashing ,and thats that.

And yes it is based on the physics of real driving but not the physics of crashing surly thats not so hard to comprehend.



You seem to have gotten it in to your head that I hate GT because you can't crash in it.

No ,you seem to hate it becasue it doesnt have the features that you wanted.While others are happy to accept it as a sequal to a game they orginaly liked.

Firstly my use of the 'crashing' element in refrence to Burnout 3 was to show that the Burnout series had tried to incoporate something new in to it's game series. It could have just stuck with the race after race gameplay and done nothing to improve upon that! (sound familar?)

Bully for burnout3 ,GT4 didnt ,get over it.

Oh so it is a RACING game now and not a DRIVING sim, care to make up your mind on this one?

Now your the one acting dumb ,obviously its a racing game that is a driving sim.
Pretty simple concept that.



Explained 3 times so far explained again above, Polyphony promised all this new stuff a year and a bit ago, e.g the new ai, the better structured game, more exciting racing, damage (albiet damage that effected the cars handling as oppossed to visable damage), online game play. None of which actually appeared in the final game.

So?

Who cares.



LOL, judging by the posts that are starting to come in I am not the only one totally underwhelmed by GT4.

I dont see anyone else spitting the dummy like you ,most people are happy to accpet that this is the game they decided to release and are getting on with enjoying it,like me.



Then they include an option to turn it off, that way they cater to the greater market who do want damage and those that want to take the easy way out can turn it off, better yet why don't you skip the driving altogether and let the PS2 do the driving for you.

ummmm ok :head:

GT has never had realistic crashing and never will (in all probablity) just accept it.

Dont play it ,but persecuting a game in a forum which most are enjoying becasue it didnt meet your standards is pure sillyness.

Im sure you thought you would have alot of other people moaning along with you as is indicated by your thread title ,well you didnt.

Im a GT lover and there is absolutly nothing you have said that has turned me off this game.

[Loop]

You just dont get it.

Driving has nothing to with crashing ,and thats that.

And yes it is based on the physics of real driving but not the physics of crashing surly thats not so hard to comprehend.


I think the point he's trying to make is that a crash will affect the physics of the car, and that if GT wants to be as lifelike as possible (evidence being that fecking annoying driving test crap) then it should incorporate damage.

[Scarface]

I think the point he's trying to make is that a crash will affect the physics of the car, and that if GT wants to be as lifelike as possible (evidence being that fecking annoying driving test crap) then it should incorporate damage.

It does affect the physics of the car ,if you hit a wall you stop ,THATS affecting the physics of the car.

There is no crashing in GT and never has been.

Only bumping cos its a racing game that is driving sim not racing sim.

Never has polyphony ever said that they are making a realistic game ,all they have ever said is that the game is a driving sim and the cars will handle and drive as realisticaly as possible with in the constrictions of a video game.

[Loop]

So you're saying damaged physics isn't possible?

[Scarface]

Not sure what you mean by that.

Can you elaborate?

If u mean what I think ,im sure its possible its just not the focus of the game.

[Chappers]

tbh, i think its a cracking game, who gives a **** if u can't **** ur car up.

[Scarface]

Yup your bang on mate

[stevengemmell]

I agree, its a cracking game

[Savanna]

This was a few days ago, but I had no PC till today.

The reason damage cannot be done is because the companys of SOME cars don^t want damage. Some cars like the Lancer and all (mitsu) don't mind but some like Pagani DO mind... So it's not poloyphonies fault.

If your statment was correct, the tha Pagani Zonda in PGR2 could not get all screwed up. But wait, it does.

[stevengemmell]

If you want ever last detail, you think aa 1200bhp skyline would stop wheelspinning?

[Night_Cralwer]

i tryed to make this point earlier.

two thing i dont like about this game.

1. rolling starts.
2. resale value of the cars. if you get a car for 50g and spend 200g+ you can only get back about 5 to 10g.

[Savanna]

Nothing is really nothing wrong with the resale value. If you buy a car, and put like 20,000 into it, your not gonna make an extra 20,000. Maybe a extra K or so.

[Sephiroth MK1]

Scarface Iam dumbfounded, you seem to enjoy twisting what I say to match whatever point is it YOU are trying to make. The only point I care about any longer is the crashes and physics statement you continue to bang on about. Think about how stupid you sound when you say crashing has nothing to do with the physics of the driving? Whilst GT is NOT about crashing ( a point I understood before I even thought about this post, a point I made clear in my last post and a point you seem to be unable to grasp that I understand.) crashing is never the less a part and parcel of any race. You can't sit there saying it's a racing game but it's about the driving so you can't have crashes. Fact is if a small time Liverpool based software company can not only go to some of the most respected and expensive producers of cars in the world and not only get crashes that effect handling but also the look of the car then surely someone as big as a Sony based studio can do it, and failing that they could at least have 'physics' based damage. Like everything else Polyphony promised it and didn't deliver.

Dont play it ,but persecuting a game in a forum which most are enjoying becasue it didnt meet your standards is pure sillyness.

It's freedom of speach something I thought was encouraged at forums like this if everyone turns up and says 'yes i loved that game it's the best game ever' and nothing changes and eveything is the same then it gets boring very quickly.... hmmm just like the GT series, funnily enough!

Besides the title is very clear 'GT LOVERS DON'T READ' so where's the problem?

[Scarface]

Sure youve got every right to express your opinion.

I just dont see why your so obssesed about it.

Most people just wouldnt buy the game and leave it at that.

[Sephiroth MK1]

LOL this topic would have ended a few days ago, had you not jumped in and forced me to explain everything again, twice, and in very small sentences with very small words!

[Loop]

True.

[Scarface]

yea because im the only one in this thread who disagrees with you ....

[stevengemmell]

Im obviously invisible :(

[Savanna]

Im obviously invisible :(

Actually, millions must be, hehe.

[sandok]

I agree the game has flaws but if you haven't every played a GT, and are trying any for the first time, they are god like. Final :D

[Sephiroth MK1]

Wow it's been a hard old month but Iam finally glad to be able to say this.

APRIL FOOL.

Lol common, I loved GT and although the game is still a disappointment in terms of what it could have been it is still a massively great game.

Yes I do own a copy, no I didn't queue up at midnight to get it, I waited for a few days and got it for a penny shy of £30.

Todate my issues with the game do involve alot of what I was using eariler. Although Iam happy to see that whilst the opponents aren't any more intelligent at least the cars they use seem to be more appropriate to the races and at least they now make as many pitstops as you do.

The GT cup race was a geniune challenge and I was using a 3.5million Jaguar XKR9.

The structure of the game is a tad better with you racing on what feels like a much wider range of tracks than before, although having to race 6 of 10 street circuits in the above mentioned league sucked.

I am somewhat annoyed by what appears to be excessive endurance races? 5 1000mile races in a single league using only a pre 70s car? No less than 3 24 hour endurance races? I was led to believe that you could save mid race but I have looked for a save option with no success and even if you switch to B spec mode and increase to 3x speed your looking at 6 hours straight.

The only other issue is tyre wear, I get about 5 or 6 laps out of Medium Racing tyres and it's always the rear tyres that wear out fastest. In terms of realism their is generally no way to over come excessive rear tyre wear as this is generally a cause of chassis design, that fact is at least true of F1 cars and seems to be born out here as no matter what I do to the set-up I can't increase tyre life much beyond that and maintain a competitive car.

But even for it's faults the game is great and if their is any doubt all you need say is Nurburgring and a Mclarean SLR.

[Savanna]

The only other issue is tyre wear, I get about 5 or 6 laps out of Medium Racing tyres and it's always the rear tyres that wear out fastest. In terms of realism their is generally no way to over come excessive rear tyre wear as this is generally a cause of chassis design, that fact is at least true of F1 cars and seems to be born out here as no matter what I do to the set-up I can't increase tyre life much beyond that and maintain a competitive car.

Um, the Tire wear in GT3 was worst than it is in title. ANd the Rear Wheels going out faster is normal and anything except a Frond Wheel Drive car. All you have to do for about equal wear, is put like R3 Mediums on the front, and R2 Hards on the back. I can make them last I think it was 15 laps on the Toyko 60 Lap Endurance, with a 900 HP+ 787B racing car.

Oh, and that was a long joke, that I think you pissed many off with, hehe.

[Sephiroth MK1]

Um, the Tire wear in GT3 was worst than it is in title. ANd the Rear Wheels going out faster is normal and anything except a Frond Wheel Drive car. All you have to do for about equal wear, is put like R3 Mediums on the front, and R2 Hards on the back. I can make them last I think it was 15 laps on the Toyko 60 Lap Endurance, with a 900 HP+ 787B racing car.

Hmmm, I can't remember tyre wear being as bad in GT3, but then the physics are noticably different so driving style will no doubt play a big role in the speed of tyre wear. I do tend to push the car in such a way that leads to alot of rear drift in higher speed corners resulting in greater rear whell tyre wear. I have tried the harder compound on the back and used that to great effect. I also found that of the courses I drove with enough laps to have significant tyre wear, Toyko R246 (think thats it) was one of the better courses for tyre wear I managed to get 7 laps in with mediums before I required a pit stop, could have probably got another 2 laps out of them if I tried.

Oh, and that was a long joke, that I think you pissed many off with, hehe.

:lol: Iam a sick puppy ain't I? :lol:

Although Iam shocked that noone challenged my issues directly prefering instead to try and justify the faults the game has.

[Savanna]

Well, every game has faults. Can't get around that.

The tires on Tokyo, 7 Laps in my 787B, they are getting to that yellow state, but I run R3/R2 now. B-Spec can make tires last longer, but he doesn't push nearly as hard, and makes more mistakes if you push him. But when your at 7,000+ B-spec, he works pretty well, hehe.